Random

[textualdeviance]

I wonder if there will ever be a point where being ironically anti-social, sarcastic and retro will become out of fashion and being well-groomed, well-dressed, nice to people and mentally healthy will be cool.

See, I think when Hot Topic started, all of that actually became uncool. If you can buy it in a mall, mass-produced, it's not subversive anymore.

Which is not to say that the fuzzy bunnies are the way to go, either, just that when a suburban mallrat dyes her hair blue, gets a nose piercing and wears a t-shirt with a Dukes of Hazzard iron-on on it, it's no longer counter-culture, but pop culture.

I blame Buffy.

It's annoying that, at nearly 33, all of the stuff that I've always authentically been, since I was a teen myself, has now been co-opted by a bunch of sniveling brats who see it only as fashion. Those of us who were authentically disenfranchised and disaffected and expressed that in the music we listened to and the way we dressed are now seeing that culture being bought and sold by spoiled kids who have no freaking idea why we were doing what we were doing. Sarcasm, depression, anti-social attitudes are cultivated as a means to be "cool" and not because they're really things that were really happening to us.

And yes, we had to walk uphill both ways to school in our Docs and we liked it, dammit. ;)

I guess mostly, I'm just annoyed that I've had to cut back my own "counter culture" expression because I don't want people getting the idea that I'm trying to be like the cool kids when I'm obviously too old for that anymore, not realizing that I was doing the same damned thing, and doing it as more than fashion, before these kids were even out of diapers.



ETA: Unlocked this since a few folks wanted to see it.

Comments

[cherryheavy.livejournal.com]

I feel the same way when I see some thirteen year old wearing a Fraggles t-shirt. You could say something like, "Would you like some dozer sticks with that," and they'd be all, "huh?".

It is really frustrating seeing everything that I loved as a child, and held sacred puked back up into the mainstream so everyone and their dog can wear it like it was theirs. These were *my* gods. No, you DON'T understand Skelletor, or how he was secretly in love with Rose Petal. They have no idea who Tickeled Pink or Stormy is, and they think that Jem is some strange new pop sensation. They don't even understand the IRONY of a pop singer going by the name Jem!

I want to wear it on my back because it was mine, but I can't, because I don't want to be like them.

[chrismm.livejournal.com]

It is frustrating. But I also think it's what this culture does to the past, so I don't think Buffy or Joss Whedon had anything to do with it. It would have happened anyway.

The hippie generation got turned into neon tie-dyed shirts, the 50's got turned into funky graphics on t-shirts and furniture, etc. We're just all about merchandising.

"Random", my ass...

[indiwise.livejournal.com]

I AGREE WITH * * EVERY * * WORD YOU SAID.

*fist pump*

Thank you so much.

I have actually had kids ask me for 'stories of the good old days'...you know, when it all MEANT SOMETHING.

And yeah, I remember being the ONLY one when it was first erupting. Stupid freakin' small-town sheep.

[bratqueen8.livejournal.com]

Yep. 'Tis true.

But, I'm 35 and I still let my inner punk out. I shop at Hot Topic. I listen to "cool" music. I have short, spikey really red dyed hair with my bangs pinned back in barettes. I don't care if I don't "look" or "act" my age. It's just a damn number and if the youths of today are gonna hold that against me, so be it.

Yes, it meant more to us back then, now it's just a trend to them. Who knows, maybe us oldsters can teach the young-uns what being an individual and making a statement is really all about.

[textualdeviance.livejournal.com]

Who knows, maybe us oldsters can teach the young-uns what being an individual and making a statement is really all about.

Except I'm afraid that the "statement" we were making 20 years ago has been irretrievably watered down by the pop-culturization of it. Granted that, in some ways, it still annoys the "normals" and therefore it still has some value, but it's become so mainstreamed now that I think most of the impact of it has all but disappeared. When I was 15 and chopped my hair off and dyed my tail blue and wore a safety pin chain as an earring, it meant something, and had an effect on the shit kickers, metal heads and preppies I had to put up with then. I think it all changed when people started making money off of it. When Manic Panic became widely distributed, and Hard Candy started up, etc. Once Hot Topic showed up, I knew we were lost. I still shop there on (very rare) occasion but there's no joy in it anymore. Part of what we were doing then is creating our own style, our own individuality that was different than the monoculture we were expected to adhere to. We made our own clothes, our own jewelry, or bought them from independent vendors and craftspeople. We made mix tapes from friends' indie records because we couldn't find them anywhere for sale in our town. There was a family in that subculture. People you could trust to understand why you didn't want to wear pink sweaters and Jordache. They knew you were probably queer, probably had a shitty childhood, probably had a strong creative streak. We were the kids who prowled the streets at 3 am, couch surfed at friends' houses because we didn't want to go home to whatever madness awaited us there. We had kinky sex in someone's brother's bedroom. We cut and dyed each other's hair (with kool aid, thanks) saved up the black nail polish and green lipstick from when it came out at Halloween. Wrote our zines. Went to Rocky Horror to get laid. Drank cappucinos at the one place in town you could get them. Dreamed of living in San Francisco or Europe.

Now you can buy this stuff anywhere. The people who wear it just think they're cool. They're all the same mall kids as they always were, they just have sarcastic comments and pink hair now. It's just another trend to follow, it's not a statement of individuality or solidarity with other disenfranchised people. The girls I grew up with who dressed like this would have kicked the living shit out of the giggly little twits who wear it now. My culture, like everything else, has been sold to poseurs and wannabes.

I'm reminded of some of the stuff Poppy Z. Brite has talked about in recent years, since she stopped writing horror and got out of goth culture because of all the little baby bats who kept clinging to it as fashion. I feel for her. Never read her stuff myself, but as a person, I can totally understand why she's so angry at those kids. The same thing happened to the hippies, too. And black culture. And it's starting to happen with queer culture. I don't mind people getting into something if it really truly speaks to them personally, but it really bothers me how so much subcultural identity has been bought out by people who want to make money off of it and sold to het suburban white kids who are embarassed by their bland lives and want to be cool so they co-opt the fashion of the disenfranchised. Fuck them. Fuck them all.

[muffinhat.livejournal.com]

Ha.

I'm 14 and completely agree with EVERYTHING you just said, too.
I've always been an anti-social child, sarcastic, ect., I never wanted to "fit in" with anyone, since all the did was treat me like a freak anyway.


In two years, it wont be cool to be a prep anymore, but punk will be the new prep >_O Once everyone is wearing merchandise of bands theyve never even heard of because they think its on the shelves at Hot Topic and its "punk/gothic/ect" and actually NOT shopping at Hollister anymore, then I can finally break out my tube top and four-inch miniskirt that like, s0000 perfectly match my stupid little heeled-sandal thingies. *barfs*

Fuckin' youth.

[textualdeviance.livejournal.com]

Right on. It's always good to know that there are younger people who still understand what this is about. It's not an age thing, really, it's more a (like I mention above) rich het white suburban kid thing. They think they have the right to co-opt whatever subculture seems "in" at the time. They'll start doing henna tattoos and wearing bindis and saris if Indian culture is in. They go hip-hop if that's in. They listen to J. Lo and think that makes them Latino. They kiss their best friend as a joke and think that makes them gay. I don't mind people enjoying the fruits of various subcultures-- life would be boring if we all stayed in our own little boxes, and I like Thai food just as much as the next person. But it's when people start pretending that they're part of that subculture when having absolutely none of the actual qualifications for it that it bothers me. I used to be able to identify "my people" by how we dressed and what music we listened to, etc. and now the person with the blue hair next to me might just as well be a pampered little bitch from Bellevue as much as someone who's really in "my tribe." The girl who talks about "girl power" knows fuckall about the history of feminism. The person with the pentagram necklace knows all she knows about paganism from Buffy.

Meh. I just want to know who's in my tribe, and not be suckered by someone who's just wearing a costume because they think it's cool.

[textualdeviance.livejournal.com]

We're just all about merchandising.

Exactly. Meh. The American version of capitalism makes me ill.

[muffinhat.livejournal.com]

So true, so true....

I can't stand being within five feet of the CHILDREN at my school anymore, since they're constantly either trying to act "punk" or "gangsta" (which makes me almost just as sick) so all I hear is usually-
"Yeaaah, las' night ah wen' to tha club an' me an' this beeyatch..." which doesnt bother me coming from an african-american kid, but if its that little white bastard who's always making fun of me for liking LOTR and anime, then I have a strong urge to stab him with my scissors and remind him of his race.

And back to the whole age thing, I hear you. I'm into Super Dollfie (http://aimeemajor.com/dolls/) and if that's immature, then who the hell cares? I think its more immature of people to constantly worry about what everyone else is doing and not mind their own damn business.

[amenaspointyhat.livejournal.com]

My friends and I have had this conversation several times. I was most definitely an outcast when I was a teen. My group of friends watched anime and read Poppy Z. Brite (BTW Lost Souls is a GREAT book if you're looking for one to read) and we smoked and cut school and we looked the part. Now you could walk into a high school and the valedictorian would look like Avril Lavinge. I might add how annoyed I am at her *tie and tank* look cuz I was wearin ties in the eighth grade. =( As a girl in a band, I feel like I have to deal with the posers on a completely different level. The MTV generation has taken over, and music has become a farce. Punk rockers (and even alt rockers) looked different than the Bon Jovi's and the Matchbox Twentys but now there's this huge mishmash of everyone trying to look like a rock star even though by the time they finish consulting their fashion stylist their career is already over.
I think this may be the first time in history that being phony is cool. Look like whatever subculture you want! We don't care if you've never watched Jem (ohhh which I LOOOOOVVVVEEE) or seen an actual record or ever had to go against the grain for any reason. Go for it! The people that this means something to won't care. Right?
I only hope that this will fade out within the next few years and we can all be happy being the people that we are and not feeling like if you wear what you like you'll like like some average asshole on the street.

[textualdeviance.livejournal.com]

I only hope that this will fade out within the next few years and we can all be happy being the people that we are and not feeling like if you wear what you like you'll like like some average asshole on the street.

God, I hope so. I'm afraid, though, that as long as these bland white kids are bored with their lives, they'll still be trying to co-opt whatever culture seems more cool to them at the time.

[amenaspointyhat.livejournal.com]

Paganism- Right. I was in my literature class the other day (readin the crucible) and the teacher says something about people being witches and practically the entire class said something about Wicca. When I started practicing Wicca 9 years ago, NO ONE knew what the hell it was. Now my mother watches Charmed EVERY DAY. I also saw some nice "Gap wear" girls in barnels and nobles ogling some tarot cards. *vomit*
EVERYTHING is free for the taking. Literally, nothing is sacred anymore.

[amenaspointyhat.livejournal.com]

Alright so at the insistance of my best friend, I will refer to a certain group of middle class white males as "wegroes" for all non-offensive purposes. Anyhow, these being one of those groups of people. I feel like you are who you are and there's no reason to be ashamed of that, but outwardly trying to be someone else pisses me off. I could go into a whole other aspect of looking like you're supposed to (because I'm black and black people don't like the fact that I dress alternatively) but that's a story for a rainy day.
Remeber that song "I think I'm turning Japanese" ? If someone on MTV said it was cool, every kid in America would be.

[rebeccama.livejournal.com]

There is a tendency to co-opt cultural symbols often forgetting or ignoring their original meaning. The sad irony is some of the people who "adopt" the symbols/trappings of other cultures still hold prejudices against the groups whose stuff they have "adopted". (I've seen people pat themselves on the back for eating sushi and then make horribly racist comments directed at Japanese-Americans.)

I roll my eyes a bit at Hot Topic. "Look at me. I am so angry at the establishment. Oops. I am the corporate establishment." I've bought a few things there, but it is if it has all been santitized so that it is no longer scary and threatening, but also so it has little meaning. The music- the original music- was not meant to be "safe". It was sexual. It had violence. It had anger. If that is your style, then you can buy the symbols there. I have friends who do. But a culture is more than its symbols. In the actual culture, the symbols have meaning.

[esptf.livejournal.com]

well. maybe that just goes to show that it's time for you to move on. because being disaffected and disenfranchised still exists, people of my generation and younger who truly feel that way probably just don't dress the way you described anymore to express it. and maybe you are no longer in touch so can't understand the difference.

besides, i think it's a bit sad to assume that people are expressed purely by how their dress. it's also sad to assume that those were your 'symbols'. everything is made shallow by fashion sooner or later. anyway, when you were a teenager, dressing was probably more important in terms of expressing what kind of person you are. it's important to us too, but in a different way. and it's sad, but my generation and the ones below are more likely just shallower, but that's the way we are, and you will have to accept it and understand that you are thirty three years old and the time in which you could assess those things with validity has passed, since it's unlikely that you understand them anymore or understand the subtle differences in the way fifteen year olds nowadays choose to express themselves.

i don't know, that's just my opinion.

[textualdeviance.livejournal.com]

Right. Excuse my while I take my arthritis meds and sit in my rocking chair.

If you're going to co-opt something of a subculture you don't belong to, at least understand the history behind it. Us old people are useful for something, really.

[muffinhat.livejournal.com]

Oh my...Avril..*grabs big metal shovel*

Sometimes I dont think even THEY know what they're trying to label themselves. For example, I read in some magazine (hey, I gotta look at SOMETHING while I'm waiting the the checkout line) that Avril had apparently taken offense to the fact that so many people were calling her a punk. "I'm not punk, I'm unique!"

Well, Avril hon, I'm not honest and I think you're cool! ~_^

[digitallux.livejournal.com]

Now this is something I have not given much thought to lately. Self expression through dress and the mass marketing of cultural icons. Sounds like a term paper. That is why I like reading your LJs, Shawna. In fact, I think I write more in your comments section than in my own LJ - ha!

I completely agree with those who said that our sub-cultural icons/images/etc have been used to market everything from clothing to lunch boxes to TV shows. Everything old is new again. Remember when 'Interview with the Vampire' came out and people started wearing 18th century frock coats with frilly shirts and press on teeth? Or when the 'The Matrix' movies first came out and suddenly everyone wanted long nehru style coats and dark glasses? Hell, even LoTR costumes showed up briefly on the runway in Paris from certain designers.

Part of the problem, if it can be called a problem, is that our society is intimately tied to marketing. We are a product of advertising. Think about it. When you watch TV you get swamped with commercials. When you attend a sports event there is advertising on the uniforms, the scoreboards, etc. Go to the theatre and buy a program and guess what is on the back pages - ads. You go to buy a soda and the machine might talk to you or flash some bit of advertising across a little LED screen. We get spam over the net. We get telemarketers calling. We still get junk mail. And it is all advertising something so that we will BUY it.

That is what it boils down to. Consumerism. Money. Make it and spend it. Is that a problem? We here would say yes, I think. However, we here must also face up to the fact that this is what our society has become. It is why other countries look upon "Americans" as naive and superficial. They can see the pressure-cooker we live in and how artificial it is. Most people in the US cannot see that. They live their comfortable lives and have little interest outside the US and Hollywood. They are not aware of how pervasive marketing and advertising has become. That said, I still like living here, warts and all.